tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post2092425924703336648..comments2023-06-05T11:51:38.383-04:00Comments on Evolutionary Psychiatry: Anger and Homocysteine (A Folate Cycle Ditty)Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-67242822541998480372014-01-21T13:50:56.215-05:002014-01-21T13:50:56.215-05:00I have B12 deficiency, and I find when I don't...I have B12 deficiency, and I find when I don't get my needle on time I get very irritable. Should I be talking to a doctor about this? What could he do to help if I do? I don't want to come off crazy. People seem to think that this disease is all in my head. I have had to do all my own research. How do I get the hormone test?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01013523257420111265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-24221789853675891082011-09-21T17:53:04.093-04:002011-09-21T17:53:04.093-04:00Emily,
I am fairly certain this might directly app...Emily,<br />I am fairly certain this might directly apply to me. I realize that you probably couldn't give a straight answer on such a complex phenomena... but if I already knew my fat metabolism seems strange, would it be a big leap to suspect that I might have a homocysteine/folate cycle problem? My diet is already getting some management. Would taking a folate supplement be a vain gesture?Justin Willcoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111528083331753917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-50490043088707712832011-09-10T09:07:14.636-04:002011-09-10T09:07:14.636-04:00Woo - one of the papers (and I'm not sure I re...Woo - one of the papers (and I'm not sure I referenced it) had some detailed information on homocysteine and hormones - it is actually the lack of estrogen that leads to higher homocysteine, not testosterone, as women's homocysteine levels rise after menopause. The authors went so far as to say the *reason* for men being angrier than women was the homocysteine itself, but I felt they were reaching a bit. In any case, many of the heart disease studies were done mostly on men, and the correlation between anger and homocysteine is stronger for men, but also holds for women. (Though I think there were mixed studies to that effect - that's the overall impression I gleaned).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-62872934174247479232011-09-10T08:37:21.310-04:002011-09-10T08:37:21.310-04:00One ever so small detail to add: when we talk abou...One ever so small detail to add: when we talk about measuring levels of homocysteine, we are generally talking about cumulative levels of homocysteine and homocystine (the dimer) and other disulfides. Sorry for the nitpicking.. http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/20/7/1704.fullPaul Whiteleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14288851488012254897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-80668099869159487492011-09-10T01:26:15.056-04:002011-09-10T01:26:15.056-04:00Just a shot in the dark, I have done no research e...Just a shot in the dark, I have done no research either way, but perhaps testosterone affects homocysteine levels, therefore the link between is that high testosterone -> anger & high homocysteine? Testosterone is well noted to cause impulsivity anger and aggression by modulating dopamine and serotonin and other factors.<br /><br /><br />This may be comparable to testosterone and hemoglobin synthesis, and subsequent athletic performance. We can see links between taking steroids and doing better in all forms of athletics, but I bet we would see a better relationship between tissue oxygenation and athletic performance/endurance. Meaning to say the link between improved athletic performance and testosterone would evaporate if the person was fed a low red meat, low folate, low iron diet for awhile so that they became anemic.IN this case there would be no relationship between performance and testosterone, as the main way testosterone improves endurance is via the cardiovascular dynamics (which are being suppressed with nutrient deficiency).<br /><br />Testosterone only facilitates more red blood cells, however ultimately you still need the raw components to make them. Having female ranges of testosterone will prevent male heights of red blood cells, no matter how much iron and folate and b12 consumed. <br /><br /><br />The main point I am making is, in this case, in regards to mood, it may not be that there is any relationship between homocysteine and anger but rather this is just a side effect of being male or having a male endocrine profile which then causes anger and hostility for reasons unrelated to the homocysteine level.ItsTheWooohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12057537399918684119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-28350839914301271722011-09-09T20:12:20.191-04:002011-09-09T20:12:20.191-04:00Stabby - there were several large heart trials wit...Stabby - there were several large heart trials with B12, folate successfully lowering homocysteine and no benefit for cardiovascular mortality. However, I believe in the HOPE2 trial there was a reduction in strokes with folate or B12 supplementation. Can't remember which. I think one homocysteine is off there are so many problems that lowering it just using one or two B vitamins is kinda pointless. That's my take.<br /><br />JKC - I saw some hand waving in the papers about some sort of "sympathetic nervous system activation" in concert with elevated homocysteine and cause anger, but my second to last paragraph is all the plausible stuff I could find. And the anonymous commenter has some ideas too (though not with respect to the anger).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-27237957868797639752011-09-09T19:47:13.821-04:002011-09-09T19:47:13.821-04:00Wow, amazing implications just in the second to la...Wow, amazing implications just in the second to last paragraph. "...the stress hormones deplete the B vitamins, thus raising homocysteine, that homocysteine is directly neurotoxic, causing anger. That homocysteine is associated with higher levels of pro-oxidants and represents an inflammatory state, also neurotoxic." Good stuff!Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10846307115018186758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-14933035525201921352011-09-09T19:24:48.831-04:002011-09-09T19:24:48.831-04:00Anonymous commenter can't be Dr K -- spelling ...Anonymous commenter can't be Dr K -- spelling is too good!garymarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815261454130108955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-56686238325785525822011-09-09T19:15:56.440-04:002011-09-09T19:15:56.440-04:00Emily is there any indication of the causality bet...Emily is there any indication of the causality between anger and homocysteine? Does excess homocysteine cause anger, or does anger cause excess homocysteine?JKChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860930015851463101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-90484115738439189122011-09-09T18:37:10.817-04:002011-09-09T18:37:10.817-04:00As always it's all a self-perpetuating twister...As always it's all a self-perpetuating twister of doom, with secondary effects that end up exacerbating themselves through influencing the primary causes. Eep!<br /><br />I remember the trials of folate supplementation that didn't reduce heart disease risk even though it reduced homocystine. If you're familiar with that, what's your take on it? Or anybody reading this comment who has an answer for that matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com