tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post968819473172406865..comments2023-06-05T11:51:38.383-04:00Comments on Evolutionary Psychiatry: Do Sugar and/or Saturated Fat Make You Stupid?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-65472627990947332052012-06-12T16:11:03.304-04:002012-06-12T16:11:03.304-04:00Hi Emily --
One of my interests is chronic pain. ...Hi Emily --<br /><br />One of my interests is chronic pain. And I suspect that chronic pain - as a condition in and of itself - will ultimately be seen as another one of those metabolic-syndrome related conditions.<br /><br />But I can't find much research specifically about diet and pain. <br /><br />Do you know of any?Ron Lavinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414717404908829409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-39077521899924648172012-06-04T18:36:19.260-04:002012-06-04T18:36:19.260-04:00Here's another interpretation; diet was self-r...Here's another interpretation; diet was self-reported. <br />I predict that people who lie to minimize reporting of "unhealthy" foods are more competitive than people who report consumption honestly or exaggerate.<br />In fact, in popular culture, people who exaggerate intake of "unhealthy" foods are often proud of their ignorance or seek to make a virtue of it.<br />So reporting of "unhealthy" food intake is itself a sensitive marker of ambition and self-perceived intelligence, or even of how society has judged one's intellect in the past.<br />And these - ambition and confidence, as well as cognitive ability - are the qualities that are required to do well in intelligence tests.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-49090200111682853872012-05-31T22:24:02.062-04:002012-05-31T22:24:02.062-04:00And the red meat as killer link, such as it is, is...And the red meat as killer link, such as it is, isn't matched by any SFA link. <br />In fact, SFA seemed to ameliorate the red meat associations; if there was a harm from the meat, SFA protected against it.<br />And there are no positive associations between SFA and the diseases that were cited as major causes of death in the meat study.<br /><br />If a seismologist discovered an increased risk of an earthquake as big as the increased risk associated with red meat - say a 20% higher chance of the big one hitting on Xmas day, compared to any other day - would anyone think that this was worth broadcasting, even in a shaky city like SF, even if it was known to be accurate?Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-68262899615565069682012-05-29T18:28:26.749-04:002012-05-29T18:28:26.749-04:00And yet, some Paleo types will not believe that ea...And yet, some Paleo types will not believe that eating local and seasonal means anything- when it is everything.PJNOIRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09046715378364958124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-77564103243382606312012-05-26T02:38:14.647-04:002012-05-26T02:38:14.647-04:00Could it be the way it was cooked? The meat and ...Could it be the way it was cooked? The meat and saturated fat in itself is not bad, but it is they way it was cooked. If it was barbacued or grill over charcoal with black marks on the meat and fat, then the proteins have become glycoslated producing Advanced glycation end-product (AGEs) which may not be good for the brain.<br /><br />If the meat was cooked using polyunsaturated vegetable oil, then the oxidized rancid oil would cause inflammation and damage to arteries and blood vessels -- also not good for the brain.<br /><br />Perhaps the fat study will picked up the association that those who ate a lot of saturated fat cooked it in unhealthy ways that produces AGEs and inflammation that is harmful to the brain.<br /><br />What do you think?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15787417321539228927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-9863839496532748582012-05-25T00:50:46.179-04:002012-05-25T00:50:46.179-04:00Seems 'do' works for the and, while 'd...Seems 'do' works for the and, while 'does' works for the or. Must be all the sugar and saturated fat making my head spin =Ppsychic24https://www.blogger.com/profile/02007506132069495095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-35020894864285720152012-05-24T21:47:26.392-04:002012-05-24T21:47:26.392-04:00I am reminded of the initial PaNu posts in which D...I am reminded of the initial PaNu posts in which Dr. Harris proposed that it (Paleo) was about what not to eat...<br /><br />In the broader sense "not to eat" included "Intermittent Fasting" ("IF"). Thus "not eating" is a part of the Paleo approach. We can speculate why this might be so, and it is easy enough to imagine that without refrigeration, without easy food storage, and in a hostile environment, meals might be less frequent or some very small and others very large. And some loaded with bacteria... Or nothing but fructose from fruit.<br /><br />In our lives it seems that the idea of regular meals, each just a few hours apart, seems to not work very well, because the body never shifts is its energy requirements away from the readily available recently consumed nutrition. In short, the systems are constantly digesting food and providing sustenance on that basis. Apparently the body was designed not just to deal with hunger, but it is a necessary condition for health.<br /><br />Maybe that is in part why diabetics do better on a weight loss program? It's not just the weight loss, but the body being forced to look for other stores of energy? <br /><br />It's just a thought...<br /><br />RichardRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13579689230767618822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-43021407284157623752012-05-24T21:41:32.445-04:002012-05-24T21:41:32.445-04:00Yes, according to Staffan Lindeberg's Food and...Yes, according to Staffan Lindeberg's Food and Western Disease, ancient fruit isn't really less sweet than current fruit, just smaller.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-87823651514680975572012-05-24T21:38:53.085-04:002012-05-24T21:38:53.085-04:00Regarding the rats and sugar study, it is importan...Regarding the rats and sugar study, it is important to recognize the amount of fructose consumed in ratio to an average human intake. I completely agree with this quote: <br /><br />"It can be calculated from study data that rats consumed 7 grams of fructose per day, which is comparable to an adult human consuming 1028 grams. A consumer would have to eat 66 apples or drink 51 cans of soda per day to reach that level. Clearly this is a highly exaggerated and distorted version of the typical human diet."<br /><br />It comes from a pro corn industry site, but they do have a massive point. <br /><br />Regarding Roger Bird's quote, "Early man did not have big, fat, juicy, sweet fruit. Such did not exist until we developed them out of wild fruit, within the past 10,000 years or less." Are you serious? We had an abundance of sweet tropical fruits which were most likely gorged upon by humans. Denise Minger wrote a good post on this a while back.Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16412486273229738220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-69830626362330138612012-05-24T16:51:25.234-04:002012-05-24T16:51:25.234-04:00interestingly that recent red meat will kill you s...interestingly that recent red meat will kill you study looked for the iron link and didn't find it. I forget exactly how they looked for it, but they were surprised...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-21191980206769772072012-05-24T16:50:42.272-04:002012-05-24T16:50:42.272-04:00I don't know the accepted for and/or… someone ...I don't know the accepted for and/or… someone call Strunk and White!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-87241554195384437652012-05-24T12:09:53.605-04:002012-05-24T12:09:53.605-04:00Shouldn't it read, 'Does sugar and/or sat....Shouldn't it read, 'Does sugar and/or sat. fat make you stupid?'psychic24https://www.blogger.com/profile/02007506132069495095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-76931360127108261322012-05-23T10:39:55.928-04:002012-05-23T10:39:55.928-04:00Just wondering if they identified the sources of s...Just wondering if they identified the sources of saturated fat? I'm picturing the group of nurses that send one out to get burgers and shakes for lunch, then sit down to a pile of fettucine alfredo or chili cheese dogs for dinner.LPJohnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07588846135956587292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-17204033900567421082012-05-23T09:19:46.427-04:002012-05-23T09:19:46.427-04:00Hi George, I know what you mean, but it seems the ...Hi George, I know what you mean, but it seems the same thing does happen with food. For instance, Klevay found that heart disease in mice caused by a diet high in saturated fat could be prevented by extra copper. <br /><br />Copper is absorbed through a transporter called Ctr-1, which very interestingly, can be down regulated by dietary fructose. The copper people think this is why fructose is bad for you: it makes marginal copper deficiency, which apparently most of us have, worse.<br /> <br />Have you seen this interview with Ron Krauss, who has found that saturated fat makes red meat toxic, and thinks it might be because it promotes iron absorption? It's right at the end of the interview.<br />http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/04/17/ron-krauss-saturated-fat-red-meat-it-depends/Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-14066314226409970322012-05-22T18:10:48.254-04:002012-05-22T18:10:48.254-04:00This quote from the IF story puts lipotoxicity plu...This quote from the IF story puts lipotoxicity plus hyperglycaemia in context.<br />It's not what we're eating, it's when we're eating it? It looks as if even fructose will be tolerated in an IF setting, which explain hunter-gatherers who are healthy while regularly binging on honey.<br /><br />"The Salk study found the body stores fat while eating and starts to burn fat and breakdown cholesterol into beneficial bile acids only after a few hours of fasting. When eating frequently, the body continues to make and store fat, ballooning fat cells and liver cells, which can result in liver damage. Under such conditions the liver also continues to make glucose, which raises blood sugar levels. Time-restricted feeding, on the other hand, reduces production of free fat, glucose and cholesterol and makes better use of them. It cuts down fat storage and turns on fat burning mechanisms when the animals undergo daily fasting, thereby keeping the liver cells healthy and reducing overall body fat. <br /><br />The daily feeding-fasting cycle activates liver enzymes that breakdown cholesterol into bile acids, spurring the metabolism of brown fat - a type of "good fat" in our body that converts extra calories to heat. Thus the body literally burns fat during fasting. The liver also shuts down glucose production for several hours, which helps lower blood glucose. The extra glucose that would have ended up in the blood - high blood sugar is a hallmark of diabetes - is instead used to build molecules that repair damaged cells and make new DNA. This helps prevent chronic inflammation, which has been implicated in the development of a number of diseases, including heart disease, cancer, stroke and Alzheimer's. Under the time-restricted feeding schedule studied by Panda's lab, such low-grade inflammation was also reduced."Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-4343752937973984822012-05-22T17:01:28.579-04:002012-05-22T17:01:28.579-04:00They normally use simple salts of minerals in thes...They normally use simple salts of minerals in these studies, which may not be how they are absorbed from food. <br />(could apply more to mineral water, sea salt, perhaps)<br />Minerals which form soaps - like magnesium - could be bound up (as magnesium stearate, for example) but does this apply to magnesium from, say, chlorophyll?Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-50613755626474720152012-05-22T10:47:58.821-04:002012-05-22T10:47:58.821-04:00'..I still can't figure out how saturated ...'..I still can't figure out how saturated fat all on its own can cause cognitive decline..'<br /><br />Saturated fatty acids promote iron absorption and inhibit manganese absorption<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11697763<br /><br />They also inhibit copper absorption<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8618945<br /><br />.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-54172120563239894202012-05-22T09:39:05.778-04:002012-05-22T09:39:05.778-04:00These researchers almost *always* find that health...These researchers almost *always* find that healthy, wealthy, educated, non-smoking, exercising olive oil, fish, and berry eaters are healthy, wealthy, educated, non-smoking, exercising olive oil, fish, and berry eaters. And these *massive* studies are funded by the NIH, not even by the Berry Association of America (1) or the Olive Oil Foundation (2). <br /><br />The only epidemiology I find truly interesting are the studies that don't quite fit. The smoking, non-exercising massive coffee drinkers who live longer and have less depressive disorders. Now that is an interesting finding, particularly in the light of how coffee seems to cause insulin resistance and is often consumed with fake creamer and sugar. That kind of finding is few and far between.<br /><br />(1) and (2) just made those upAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-23529235088813157992012-05-22T09:17:40.529-04:002012-05-22T09:17:40.529-04:00Dr Deans
Not to inundate you with yet more readin...Dr Deans<br /><br />Not to inundate you with yet more reading but it may be worthwhile to have a look at the In Press work of Cani, et al <br />"Involvement of gut microbiota in the development of low-grade inflammation and type 2 diabetes associated with obesity" in Gut Microbes journal <br /><br />and also from the Evolutionary perspective<br /><br />Wong, et al. "Gut microbiota, diet, and heart disease" J AOAC Int 2012;95:24-30Dr Alan C. Loganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677215443645318062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-76770283296926603142012-05-21T22:28:48.634-04:002012-05-21T22:28:48.634-04:00Maybe I'm being too cynical here, but are the ...Maybe I'm being too cynical here, but are the designers of the saturated fat study even interested in finding the truth? Maybe it's just based on the opinions I've been exposed to, but food frequency questionnaires seem like a tool to find what you want to find rather than to find anything that's actually happening. We always hear about how the studies we want can't be funded, but then money is spent on carrying out these pointless studies?Dylanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394189286203798558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-36141702790103020332012-05-21T20:26:33.130-04:002012-05-21T20:26:33.130-04:00True. I wonder if the effects in early life would ...True. I wonder if the effects in early life would carry over, though. The same people who used them in the 60s might be the ones who ate more saturated fats later.<br /><br />That is just one prospect out of many. It is also plausible that the most stressed people would eat the most saturated fat as a comfort food.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-20509241521954393812012-05-21T20:12:55.894-04:002012-05-21T20:12:55.894-04:00I did mean to add that a group of >71 y/o femal...I did mean to add that a group of >71 y/o female health professionals will likely have a lower than average incidence of illicit drug use, and etoh use was accouned for.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-45740881998565425802012-05-21T20:07:24.243-04:002012-05-21T20:07:24.243-04:00right - and I still haven't seen anything conv...right - and I still haven't seen anything convincing about lipotoxicity without hyperglycemia i.e. excess energy states in general, which is obviously way more complicated than saturated fat. And yes, from de novo lipogenesis you get palmitate, for sure. Nice find on the IFing rats.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-11668388071418192432012-05-21T19:44:54.105-04:002012-05-21T19:44:54.105-04:00Rock Star mice on a high-fat diet:
http://www.cel...Rock Star mice on a high-fat diet:<br /><br />http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(12)00189-1<br /><br />http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560<br /><br />it turns out, all they needed was intermittent fasting; then they "outperformed" the "healthy eating", all-day grazing rats. <br /><br />Palmitate may be associated with cognitive impairment because it is the main endogenous SFA, produced from excess carbohydrate. Most dietary fats supply proportionately less palmitate than lipogenic metabolism will. Easpecially on low-carb diets:<br />http://rdfeinman.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/saturated-fat-on-your-plate-or-in-your-blood/Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-51924100703379316962012-05-21T18:36:51.024-04:002012-05-21T18:36:51.024-04:00I don't think it will be recorded. I may do a...I don't think it will be recorded. I may do a variation of this talk at AHS.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.com