tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post796718077181741401..comments2023-06-05T11:51:38.383-04:00Comments on Evolutionary Psychiatry: Orthorexia in the Paleo/Primal Community: Further ConsiderationsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-76908295331633734292014-05-19T11:02:10.441-04:002014-05-19T11:02:10.441-04:00Thanks, agreed, the neurosis about food gets overd...Thanks, agreed, the neurosis about food gets overdone. I get it myself, too long on lowcarb in the past, too worried about the profound asthma I get if I ingest any gluten (wheat or rice), too concerned about whether I might be eating something that'd crash my blood sugar when I have to be working, and I end up eating nothing. For me, not-eating is the worst and most chronic thing, so anything that makes me wander the kitchen, feel guilt for 14 reasons everywhere I look and wander out again is bad, sigh. <br /><br />*<br /><br />I hope you don't bow to pressure from others to ban commenters (only to own your own choices, of course). <br /><br />I have only returned to the blogosphere after several years away and (having recently found my google reader backup file so I got my RSS feeds back) have been catching up the last few weeks. I am stunned at some of the behavior and comments in it. Woo's a drama but holy cats she is way, way down the list if we're looking at people who deserve to have their kazoo taken away. <br /><br />It's one thing to be slicing or dramatic. It's another thing to be so crassly, trashily crudely insulting like an "-ism" (against race, sex, weight, or anything else like that, I consider them all equal in that regard). Insults and epithets and derogatory and sexist refs about women and about fat I've seen when reading backlogs recently have made me feel (as a woman with lipedema) pretty unwelcome in the online world -- by proxy, where I never did before. I used to enjoy reading in this genre more, as I recall, which is kind of sad. <br /><br />It's not so much the battle of certain personalities; it's more that the initial spark only seemed to be discussion about nutrition or health, which brought inappropriate personal insult response, which brought complaint about that kind of response (personal/sexual insult is never an ok response to a simple complaint that one lacks any science backing for a claim), which brought 10x the same response again, which brought complaint to everyone else as they allegedly "should" be themselves commenting on or distancing from such behavior, which just brought more of it all over and then everyone felt like a victim of someone, apparently. But it all really tracked back to was a primary source that was so escalatingly abusive. I used to know someone like that but the person eventually got help for substance abuse issues. I've never actually seen that kind of behavior online in this field before. Now it feels like the whole bloody paleo-ish blogosphere needs therapy.<br /><br />Well I guess you're well placed, haha!PJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06126379601196872345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-68851718455601771392014-03-01T21:49:02.153-05:002014-03-01T21:49:02.153-05:00Emily - I happily cooked and ate mostly LA farmer...Emily - I happily cooked and ate mostly LA farmers market faire for the past 25 years. Which did include lots of fruit - as well as veggies, wild fish, pastured eggs, buffalo. I just called it eating. Since my husband was diagnosed Type 2 a few years ago, we've been researching and eating paleo variations but I've given up gluten and non-fermented dairy. I must confess to thinking orthorexian thoughts whereas before I just happily prowled the farmers market and made great food. I think I am going to go back to happily making food. Thanks for the post! This is really good. And, if your kids help you cook, this may help engage them with healthy eating. My mom let me cook and bake with her beginning when I was about 3. The creative engagement with food taught me tons - especially about the pleasure of experiencing vibrant foods and creating great meals and experiences.Melshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16489931279795647877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-84493477810130147552013-02-17T00:08:42.088-05:002013-02-17T00:08:42.088-05:00Why are people still debating about starches? Tak...Why are people still debating about starches? Take Jimmy Moore's lead and measure yourself and take the guess work out of it.<br /><br />BloodSugar101: <a href="http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php" rel="nofollow">What is a Normal Blood Sugar?</a>js290https://www.blogger.com/profile/08157385596237909630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-74270105551263131952013-02-11T21:34:18.018-05:002013-02-11T21:34:18.018-05:00So bold Dr. Deans, as always. I do miss those head...So bold Dr. Deans, as always. I do miss those heady days when we would facebook message thoughts about eating and the emergence of your excellent blog. Back when archevore was PaleoNu and things were pretty chill. I've just gone back through your recent posts, which are as good as ever. Admittedly I haven't been on a paleo blog, crossfit.com or any other such site in months now, just couldn't take it anymore. I've been dealing with my sons issues (as you know) and getting really intensively back into work (pun intended :) ). The carb wars and subsequent disasters on many blogs were just all too much for me. I'm now sticking to Alan Aragon's research review, my own reading and the occasional review or your's and Richard's blog (he just kills me, even when he's being "angry"). I've been whole hog on the carbs for awhile, included tons of wine and things seem fine. Following the Martin Berkhan theme of lower carbs on non-workout days, higher on big lifting plus the 8-10 hour eating window (with a little of Anthony Colpo's wisdom thrown in) seems to be great. I gain muscle, don't gain fat and feel great. Since I have celiac the gluten isn't much of a debate for me, increasingly people at work are seeing the wisdom of what I've been saying and incorporating a little bit of paleo plus some high intensity exercise into their lives and into the recommendations they give their patients. Take a look into "Post ICU Syndrome". it's long been an area of interest for me and is starting to gain traction amongst the society of critical care. I think that good nutrition and well-structured exercise such as I've been advocating, starting in the ICU, will make a huge difference for these folks (and there will be sooooo many more in the coming years).<br /><br />well, off to get the eldest from gymnastics. shoot me a FB message or gmail if you are interested in the follow-up details on my son. Amazing what a well structured diet, slightly adjusted point of view and good psychiatric guidance can do for a little man who struggles. Plus, i hired a lawyer for school stuff, which as I tell everyone, is what we do as adults because we can't actually punch other adults in the mouth :). She's giving to the school pretty good.<br /><br />as always, keep up the good work and best of luck with the snow.<br /><br />dhDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08017283769321903865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-73976542470784087432013-02-11T10:58:58.612-05:002013-02-11T10:58:58.612-05:00Dr. Deans, Any thoughts on personality disorders a...Dr. Deans, Any thoughts on personality disorders and orthorexia and eating disorders in general...seems like group B? ones like narcissism and border-line seem to 'feed the beast' so to speak...I guess that was a pun?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05955418159473734203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-80711984630213631892013-02-09T05:33:33.603-05:002013-02-09T05:33:33.603-05:00"Ban" Me? I post very infrequently. It&#..."Ban" Me? I post very infrequently. It's a bad habit.<br /><br />There is next to zero discussion on this blog anyway which is why I stopped commenting; however, you're free to leave it to the 3 MDs who post and you can all congratulate each others brilliance etc, I will *volunteer* to stop polluting your comment section every 2 weeks or so, lol.<br /><br />ItsTheWooohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12057537399918684119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-62610449239035406962013-02-09T02:44:59.498-05:002013-02-09T02:44:59.498-05:00Please.
Serra, avoiding wheat and sugar is a sim...Please. <br /><br />Serra, avoiding wheat and sugar is a simple habit. It's not "extremely stressful", nor does it require "hyper-vigilance" or is it "downright dangerous" as you put it in another comment.<br /><br />The attempts to clinicalize simple low carb eating are so transparent. The benefits of low carb for some populations are established. <br /><br />Give it a rest, will you?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412191763950631272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-18856217725393795732013-02-09T02:42:46.502-05:002013-02-09T02:42:46.502-05:00Oh, please.
Serra, avoiding wheat and sugar is a...Oh, please. <br /><br />Serra, avoiding wheat and sugar is a simple habit. It's not "extremely stressful", nor does it require "hyper-vigilance" or is it "downright dangerous" as you put it in another comment.<br /><br />The attempts to clinicalize simple low carb eating are so transparent. The benefits of low carb for some populations are established. <br /><br />Give it a rest, will you?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412191763950631272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-39686269121796353802013-02-07T09:35:58.424-05:002013-02-07T09:35:58.424-05:00Oh, FFS. Is it possible to discuss anything in the...Oh, FFS. Is it possible to discuss <i>anything</i> in the paleosphere right now without it devolving into the carb wars? There are other things at issue, people.<br /><br />(That's not directed at your post, Emily, that's directed at the comment thread.)Sarra Besshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07175871681836515445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-31863236749994243102013-02-06T17:46:09.766-05:002013-02-06T17:46:09.766-05:00Most Americans have an insane way of thinking abou...Most Americans have an insane way of thinking about nutrition:<br /><br />Some foods are Good, and remain Good no matter how much you eat (carbs are in this category).<br /><br />Other foods are Bad, and less is always better ad infitum (dietary fat).<br /><br />When some people say that excess carbs make most people fat, that violates the belief system of carbs being Good, so they must defend the tatoes against this blasphemy. It is not science.<br /><br />However, some LC'ers retain the insane way of thinking, and just switch the categories. I have read some websites using the phrase "evil carbs".<br /><br />I think most people need to restrict calorie carbs to less than half of total cals. I am imagining a bell-shaped curve with "the avg person" doing best on 40% carb/40% fat/20% protein. This would have some people needing - biologically needing - VLC, and some well tolerating a high carb/low fat diet.Jeffrey of Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012361017883221081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-75516112813412697172013-02-06T17:30:25.169-05:002013-02-06T17:30:25.169-05:00"So, parents being busy and kids being kids a..."So, parents being busy and kids being kids and no one liking to get obnoxious notes, most of the kids get pre-wrapped convenience foods like juice and gogurt and little packages of goldfish crackers for snacks because its easy and it fits."<br /><br />Uh oh, you're starting to see the Matrix. You'll be flying any day now.<br /><br />P.S.<br />I vote for not banning Woo, she has pros as well as cons.<br />Jeffrey of Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012361017883221081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-80493400937797964652013-02-06T10:15:10.702-05:002013-02-06T10:15:10.702-05:00Any chance you have a topics tag list for all your...Any chance you have a topics tag list for all your posts? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-85211918461992852492013-02-06T09:34:46.266-05:002013-02-06T09:34:46.266-05:00Wooo's interpretations could be quite interest...Wooo's interpretations could be quite interesting. Due to the reading about her take on Taurine, I successfully experimented with adding that supplement to my migraine preventing and management routine. The only sane approach to the blog reading is treating the information there as a food for thoughts. It is almost like an art, we normally don't try to model our lives according to what we read in a novel, but often such reading helps us to look at our life from a different angle. According to what I remember from the reading the Wooo's blog, she doesn't claim everybody would need the same level of carbohydrate restriction like she does, but if she did she wouldn't be alone. Applying personal experience too widely probably is the main reasons for Carbs Wars. It is possible in a few years we will remember current situation with a smile. Mileage may vary. I limit my carbs intake, but my family members are just fine eating mostly junk-free.<br /><br />I guess Wooo's experience during the leptine trail left quite a few people in similar situation (body resisting massive fat loss) guessing, what if it would be helpful for them too?<br /><br />Dose of totalitarian approach could be healthy. As we know from the history, totalitarianism indeed provides order and security. Freedom could be messy.<br /> Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-73805642550737387472013-02-05T19:18:20.042-05:002013-02-05T19:18:20.042-05:00@Robert, I've made a an attempt to figure out ...@Robert, I've made a an attempt to figure out the carb thing from an academic perspective. <br /><br />http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201203/do-carbs-make-you-crazy<br /><br />http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201203/do-carbs-keep-you-sane<br /><br />http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201203/do-carbs-make-you-crazy-part-ii<br /><br />The two positions are fundamentally opposed. I tend to hang out on the carb friendly side because that seems the most likely ancestral paradigm and the home of the metabolically flexible. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-85100279022158179632013-02-05T19:03:30.113-05:002013-02-05T19:03:30.113-05:00But that's the thing, Emily. For most of those...But that's the thing, Emily. For most of those throwing the term around, "orthorexia" is just an attempt to conflate dietary carbohydrate control and mental illness. The term is being used in a fundamentally unserious way. It's an attempt at frame control. <br /><br />You are IMHO the first blogger I've seen who took it seriously. And in the process, you've made the discussion far more interesting and subtle than its proponents ever intended. <br /><br />And I'm not sure they're happy about it. :-)Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412191763950631272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-14006779021455307492013-02-05T18:49:51.638-05:002013-02-05T18:49:51.638-05:00Emails to me will always remain private except at ...Emails to me will always remain private except at the explicit permission of the mailer. Secrets are my business.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-41577027729182489542013-02-05T18:48:35.515-05:002013-02-05T18:48:35.515-05:00Woo spends a lot of her time tilting eloquently an...Woo spends a lot of her time tilting eloquently and dramatically at imagined windmills of interpretations she has created. Confidence doesn't always equal wisdom. She also applies her personal experience like a scythe against all other experience… which is often enlightening, but not always accurate. I don't mind aggression, as it can be important. But my blog is my little totalitarian regime corner of the internet, and I've been at this game too long to allow the comments to fall apart into sniping. See below...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-75011492378104314352013-02-05T18:43:46.026-05:002013-02-05T18:43:46.026-05:00@Robert, be nice. I'm not going to post your l...@Robert, be nice. I'm not going to post your latest comment. @Evelyn, I'm not cool with these comments being a bashing forum for Stefani Ruper, either. She has very little to with the anti-carb spin the paleosphere went for a while.<br />@Everyone, are we really going to replay the carb wars here? On the orthorexia post? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429177284200775781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-84885190921191546622013-02-05T17:34:44.437-05:002013-02-05T17:34:44.437-05:00I don't actually know anything about her. But ...I don't actually know anything about her. But for your jihad, I doubt I'd ever have heard about her. I do know that there are pro-carb people no better qualified that you and Melissa go to the ramparts for. So IMHO you're not being fully authentic about your reasons for your war.<br /><br />Also, Evelyn, you endlessly give advice to the clinically obese on your blog. Which makes me curious: where did <b>you</b> go to medical school, and in which states are you a licensed nutritionist and/or M.D.?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412191763950631272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-44699314476161171712013-02-05T14:08:37.514-05:002013-02-05T14:08:37.514-05:00"I see orthorexia in far broader swaths of th..."I see orthorexia in far broader swaths of the paleosphere. "Gluten will kill us all!" "The 5x10^-14 g of soy isoflavones in this coconut ice cream will kill us all!""<br /><br />That's not 'orthorexia' that's a rational response to limited information: namely knowing that gluten and soy are very bad for many people, but not knowing precisely how large a dose is required to cause said harm.David Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08508780038542342811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-24289745176993934412013-02-05T14:06:39.627-05:002013-02-05T14:06:39.627-05:00carbo = short for carbohydrate
phobic = suffering ...carbo = short for carbohydrate<br />phobic = suffering from irrational fears<br /><br />I'll use one definition irrational to be unsubstantiated. Sounds about right to me Robert! OK, sarcasm aside, why does Ruper go on LC podcasts? Is it to discuss her experiences and issues when she was VLC? How she believes women should eat carbs? Why not I wonder ...<br />CarbSanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17739915307890592327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-50841449236537987242013-02-05T13:47:46.404-05:002013-02-05T13:47:46.404-05:00Evelyn, "carbophobic" is as much a word ...Evelyn, "carbophobic" is as much a word as "sugarophobic", and makes exactly as much sense.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15412191763950631272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-29676654406213201202013-02-05T12:01:25.102-05:002013-02-05T12:01:25.102-05:00Have you read this Emily?
http://www.paleoforwomen...Have you read this Emily?<br />http://www.paleoforwomen.com/stefanis-soul-on-a-plate-my-personal-journey-with-food-body-existence-and-love/<br /><br />Sure the recoverED eating disordered are in a position to help others, even those in recovERY that is working, but Stefani is/was neither.<br /><br />She writes from time to time about women eating carbs and how important that is. Did she utter a peep in podcasts? Rarely. When she does she sounds wicked timid as if to be afraid of upsetting her carbophobic benefactors. CarbSanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17739915307890592327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-87707406353928495832013-02-05T02:50:22.882-05:002013-02-05T02:50:22.882-05:00If I were to pick a therapeutic nutrient to try to...If I were to pick a therapeutic nutrient to try to treat these conditions, it would be Vitamin K2 as MK-4. Big doses are anhedonic and depressing, but steady food-like doses seem to dampen compulsive behavior without denying pleasure.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01237465111190530578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3045634714760830992.post-70102220701249270882013-02-04T22:20:14.444-05:002013-02-04T22:20:14.444-05:00Wooo is unique, smart, honest,and amazingly insigh...Wooo is unique, smart, honest,and amazingly insightful. Is social grace so valuable that it outweighs the rest? Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.com